What R Baloon head cases ?

[J Miller]

What R Baloon head cases ?

Here is a drawing of the various cartridge types:

CaseHeadTypes.JPG

The center one on the bottom row is what we are talking about. Compare it to the one to the right of it and you can see the difference.

Balloon_solid head case comparison.jpg

Here is a sectioned example of both the old balloon head and the modern head cases. The difference here is very clear.

Balloon heads are much weaker than the modern solid head cases.
The biggest problem is not so much the weakness of the design, it's the fact that when many of the existing balloon head cases were factory loads or hand loads the priming compound was corrosive and mercuric. When the cartridge is fired the mercury reacts with the brass causing deterioration. This can cause the case heads to separate and blow off as Sixgun, and Elmer Keith reported. Generally black powder ammo didn't fare as bad with this as the smokeless did because the mercuric residue tended to disperse in the black powder fouling and was more easily washed out.

When sizing balloon head cases a lot times you'll get a severe bulge below where the sizing die stops. This is normal as there is no web to keep the cases from expanding all the way to the rim. Each time you fire the case it will expand a bit more. Eventually you won't be able to get the cases into a shell holder.

I dislike this bulge and have devised a sizing program that not only keeps the cases at the factory size, it does not excessively resize them as carbide dies normally do. This is a subject for another "How To" thread though.

Their one grace is you can cram more powder into them. Black powder that is.

Joe

[kimwcook]

Excellent class and photo's, Professor. I'm still not going to mess with'em. Don't have any so it's easy.

[J Miller]

Excellent class and photo's, Professor. I'm still not going to mess with'em. Don't have any so it's easy.

If you run across any, send 'em to me. I'll put 'em to good use.

Joe

[pwl44m]

Thx Joe, it might have sounded like a silly question to a few but as I have found out on this forum it is OK to ask. And likley as not there are others that don't know. I have been enlightened.
Oh ! and I was a little Sheepish in asking but I really wanted to know.
So , in looking at the diagrams the only way to tell is to look down the case mouth ?

[Griff]

Thx Joe, it might have sounded like a silly question to a few but as I have found out on this forum it is OK to ask. And likley as not there are others that don't know. I have been enlightened.
Oh ! and I was a little Sheepish in asking but I really wanted to know.
So , in looking at the diagrams the only way to tell is to look down the case mouth ?

Aye. And truly, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. For as you say, there are more'n likely some that are sheepish enough not to ask... but will leran sumptin' if someone else does!

[w30wcf]

Joe,
Excellent photo and description! The ones we use are the type in your photo that are considered "solid head button pocket" per a reference from the book WRA CO Cartridges And Their Variations by Dan Shuey.

w30wcf

[jhrosier]

Very well done essay, Joe.
You should consider writing for publication.

Jack

[Beaker]

Thanks for an outstanding explaination.

[Mike D.]

At approximately what decade did balloon head cases cease to be manufactured? 1930s?

[J Miller]

At approximately what decade did balloon head cases cease to be manufactured? 1930s?

Mike I'm pretty sure it was around the mid 30s when they phased them out.

Thx Joe, it might have sounded like a silly question to a few but as I have found out on this forum it is OK to ask. And likley as not there are others that don't know. I have been enlightened.
Oh ! and I was a little Sheepish in asking but I really wanted to know.
So , in looking at the diagrams the only way to tell is to look down the case mouth ?

That is about the only 100% positive way.
There is one other way, but it's not 100% positive. All balloon heads will have no extractor grove. Most solid head cases will have an extractor grove. But I have a WESTERN and a WRA case that are solid heads but they have no extractor grove.
If the ammo is loaded and of an age to be black powder then you can be pretty much positive they're going to be balloon heads.

Joe

[J Miller]

Joe,
Excellent photo and description! The ones we use are the type in your photo that are considered "solid head button pocket" per a reference from the book WRA CO Cartridges And Their Variations by Dan Shuey.

w30wcf

I really need to buy some of these books. You know books are forever, but this internet thing is just a passing fad.
Seriously a home library is one of the best things a person can do for themselves.

Joe

[Mike D.]

The Rem-UMC .33 CF cases are not balloon head. They definitely have an extractor groove. Here is a .33 CF case on the left next to a Starline .45-70 case that was reformed into a .33 case.

[J Miller]

Mike,

I think they went to solid head cases on rifle ammo a lot earlier than they did revolver ammo.
I've got a bunch of late 1800s early 1900s 30-30 and 45 ACP ammo that is of solid head construction while the .45 Colt, 44 Spcl, 38 Spcl and other revolver rounds of that era were still balloon heads.

Joe

[Mike D.]

Joe,

These cases look great and had no primers until I set them, so they'll get some field use in the fall.

[Ben_Rumson]

I've got a bunch of late 1800s early 1900s 30-30 and 45 ACP ammo that is of solid head construction

Do you use them even in light of the mercuric priming issue?

[J Miller]

The 45 ACP stuff is somewhere in my misc shooter brass bag.

The old 30-30 stuff is in my collection somewhere. I kept some of it for my collection, the rest gets shot.

When it comes to brass it must pass these tests:

Is is cracked or split?
Yes = scrap bucket
No = use it

Will it hold a primer securely?
Yes = use it
No = scrap bucket

Will it hold the bullets securely?
Yes = use it
No = scrap bucket.

It's that simple. Age has no bearing on the situation as far as I'm concerned.

Joe

[jd45]

PERRY, I FEEL IT'S MY DUTY TO WARN YOU!!! PLEASE, FOR SAFETY'S SAKE, DON'T EVER LOOK DOWN THE TUBE OF A CASE!!! YOU MIGHT GET CORNFUSED & LOOK DOWN THE BARREL OF A COLT SAA!!!! (grin) Don't worry, I'm not takin the act to Vegas! jd45

[w30wcf]

At approximately what decade did balloon head cases cease to be manufactured? 1930s?

I have a Winchester box of 45-70's that are of the "solid head button pocket" type were made sometime between 1946 and 1960 so they were made until at least the late 1940's at least in some calibers.

Balloon head cases were never used in smokeless only cartridges so you will never find any balloon head cases in the 25-35, 30-30, 32 WS, 33 Winchester, etc.

w30wcf

[pwl44m]

PERRY, I FEEL IT'S MY DUTY TO WARN YOU!!! PLEASE, FOR SAFETY'S SAKE, DON'T EVER LOOK DOWN THE TUBE OF A CASE!!! YOU MIGHT GET CORNFUSED & LOOK DOWN THE BARREL OF A COLT SAA!!!! (grin) Don't worry, I'm not takin the act to Vegas! jd45

Was that Stand Up or did it come from the Peanut Gallery ?

[Buffboy]

I have some Remington empty cases and live ammo in 45-70 that was apparently manufactured in the late 50s - early 60s that has balloon head cases. I got it from my brother who was cleaning out his boss's garage and had it given to him 30 years ago. I'm dating it by the box of 1964 national match 308, various 1962-1964 308 ball included, M14 magazines, 1963-4 45acp ball in the same large metal box. Don't have any empties of the 33WCF in there to check that ammo for balloon cases. Hard to date exactly, I don't have the box for it, the 45-70 ammo has jacketed bullets and looks new in every way.

[jd45]

Peanut Gallery! jd45

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Another important consideration is the balloon cases won't take as much pressure even if new. This is because they have no fillet or web to support the base. If the rifle has any amount of ramping the ramp area doesn't support the thin case. This is also why a ballon case will hold more powder. A 44-40 in a ballon case will hold 40 grs. of 3f where as the modern case will only hold abouit 37-38 grs.

[AJMD429]

I have some Remington empty cases and live ammo in 45-70 that was apparently manufactured in the late 50s - early 60s that has balloon head cases. . . . I don't have the box for it, the 45-70 ammo has jacketed bullets and looks new in every way.

I sure wouldn't want to reload 'Ruger Only' loads in THAT brass...!