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Hi
This is the first time i have been on this forum!
I have a marlin 1894c in 357/38 calibre which i use for competition and target shooting which i accquired recently!
When using 38 special load and cases the gun will not group accurately! but if i use 357 magnum cases with a 38 load the gun shoots accurately and groups extrememly well!
Does anyone know why the difference in case length is affecting the accuracy so dramatically!
My husband has the same rifle and his shoots everything fine (strange!!)
Some .357 Mag guns, regardless of type, don't do well with .38 Special loads. The problem is that the .38 Special has, in effect, an extremely long leade/throat. It that part of the bore isn't compatible with the bullets you're using that might be the reason. However, I've heard all sorts of postulations but never one that's been proven. Trying different .38 Special loads to see if it is consistently bad might be one approach. Here, most shooters would simply put their loads in .357 Mag cases as we have few legal restrictions on handloading.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
243kay wrote:Hi
This is the first time i have been on this forum!
I have a marlin 1894c in 357/38 calibre which i use for competition and target shooting which i accquired recently!
When using 38 special load and cases the gun will not group accurately! but if i use 357 magnum cases with a 38 load the gun shoots accurately and groups extrememly well!
Does anyone know why the difference in case length is affecting the accuracy so dramatically!
My husband has the same rifle and his shoots everything fine (strange!!)
Hobie wrote:Hard to diagnose from across the pond here...
Some .357 Mag guns, regardless of type, don't do well with .38 Special loads. The problem is that the .38 Special has, in effect, an extremely long leade/throat. It that part of the bore isn't compatible with the bullets you're using that might be the reason. However, I've heard all sorts of postulations but never one that's been proven. Trying different .38 Special loads to see if it is consistently bad might be one approach. Here, most shooters would simply put their loads in .357 Mag cases as we have few legal restrictions on handloading.
Howdy and welcome to the fire.
Hobie has some good points. If the only difference is the cases, (Both loaded with the same bullet) then yes, the bullet jump is probably causing the problem. If this is one of the marlin micro-groove guns and you are using lead bullets pushed hard then the problem could be the bullet is skipping in the bore. Micro groove rifling is shallow and doesn't work well with lead bullets pushed hard.
If you are using lead bullets you might try seating the bullet out longer. There is no reason to use the crimp groove of a lead bullet. Just set it out longer and crimp right into the soft lead bullet.
Here is a long loaded 38 special. Notice the crimp groove above the case.
Hi,
My husband originally thought it was probably the bullet jump that was causing the problem - but the loads that are being used are just weak target loads so it wasn't the bullet being shaved off the barrel!
Still stange that two identical rifles can act so differently thou!
Hi Kay243. Cheshire hey. I could spit to the border with Cheshire from here
If you's only using factory ammo your a bit stuck. If your reloading you have got to find what your barrel likes as I'm sure you know no two guns are the same.
You mentioned you got it recently, is it new or pre owned? It may not be shot in barrel wise, it could be picking up lead. I never think much of bullet lube these days unless it is a proven one.
Yes, welcome!
I think the problem is the Marlin doesn't know it is a .357 calibRE.
It thinks it's a .357 calibER.
Talk to it a bit, reassure it.
I'll bet it shoots fine after that.
P
We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other.
I'm afraid my 1894c has the same problem. It's not terrible in my gun but noticeable. It has never shot lead 38 special as well whether the bullets were soft or hard. Same bullets in the 357 case and all is fine so I've always assumed the extra jump with the shorter case was the problem. Jacketed bullets are no problem in either case. As I handload almost all my ammo, the problem was solved in my case by 357 cases for my plinking loads. I had more of them anyway. IIRC (it has been a lot of years since I did this) I had some improvement in raising the powder charge a bit (the 38 special looses a bit of pressure in the longer 357 chamber) but it didn't solve the problem like using the 357 case did. I never encountered significant leading or buildup in the chamber, well, I did, when speeds got too high for the soft bullets but that was another problem with either case.
Edit: I forgot, welcome to the forum.
"People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging for rule by brute force, when the biggest, strongest animals among men were always automatically 'right.' Guns ended that, and social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work."
You say the barrel is run in (broken in) but well, that's not necessarily germane. In all cases clean that bore removing all copper and lead fouling. All. Then you have a baseline (basic trouble "shooting"). Try it then. Slug your bore. Compare bore dimensions to bullet dimensions. Bullet should be .001-.002" over groove diameter of bore. Slightly undersized bullets can skip in the microgroove bore, adding .001" to diameter can do wonders. HOWEVER, some rifles seem to like one or the other much better without reason. It could be that the chamber is a bit "sloppy" and the bullet in your rifle gets a bit cockeyed before it hits the leade/throat. It could be a combination of things. It is unfortunate but you'll have to do a bit of shooting to sort it out.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Welcome to the forum fellow member of the Commonwealth
I also have an 1894c in 357/38s calibre.
It might be gun and ammunition specific because I had the reverse problem.
In 38s using Winshester jacketed soft point I can ring the gong at the end of the range all day long but if I use American Eagle brand it's all over the place. Using 357 calibre I can put any brand with any configeration through it and it's very accurate.
I don't spend a great deal of time bench shooting though so I can't comment on groupings but I would recommend trying a variety of ammunition and see what your gun likes, regardless of the calibre.
