Modern mountain man choices...

[bigbore442001]

Hmm. I will take what you can call a New England or northeastern perspective. About the only place I can think of where you could do something of this nature would be in the more desolate parts of Maine or the Adirondacks of New York. From this perspective I will proceed.

Firearms:

A Ruger Single Six stainless steel convertable 22 lr/22 wrm. This would be used for small game, small varmints and on the trapline.

A Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter Model in 44 Magnum. This would be used for most of the year for a woods companion, hunting revolver,etc.

A TC Encore with a couple of accessory barrels such as one varmint caliber for coyotes, one in 30-06, one 12 guage for birds and possibly wild turkey and a muzzleloading barrel.

In a place such as this if I wanted to chuck it all, so to speak, you would have to find some way to make a living. About the only way I know would be to take up trapping. Especially beaver,fisher and coyote. I just started to dabble in trapping and I have learned a few things.

Traps:

Three dozen Belisle 330 conibears. The best beaver and otter trap I know of.

Three dozen Belisle 220 conibears. These are great for raccoon and fisher.

Three dozen 110's. Great for muskrat,mink and weasel.

Two dozen no 4 double coil spring restraint traps. This would be for coyote.

A few spools of trap wire and some of the various tools that accompany it.

Last but not least.

A Ski Doo Tundra snowmobile. I know some trappers and guides in the Pine Tree State. This is the pick up truck of snowmobiles.

[rimrock]

I'd take my Marlin .444, a couple hundred rounds, about 30 loaded as a .410, my Bisley Vaquero .45C, also with a couple hundred rounds and some snake stopper loads mentioned on gunblast.com, a hawk, 2 good knives, lots of 550 cord, a compass, medical supplies, and few other small items in my possibles bag, and about $500 in one dollar bills. I'd take a .22 single six instead of the .45 if I had one.

Here's one man's simple method of reloading at the campfire

http://www.castbullet.com/reload/campcast.htm

Rimrock

[Meeteetse]

I've been going to the hills and enjoying the mountain man attitude for nearly 50 years. Our cabin is nice and could easily hold anything I wanted, but I have found that less is more. Over the years I have tried/carried several different guns into the woods, some because of hunting seasons and some because I liked them. What has happened over the years is I have found that I need very few.

I usually have a Ruger .308 bolt gun that has both iron and glass sights, a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag, a Ruger SBH in .44 mag and two .22's. A Browning lever and a Ruger single-six. Most of the time the .22's do all the work. I am thinking about getting a bolt .22 just for better accuracy. I know that is five guns and if I had to pack them I would loose a couple, probably the two .44's. One the other hand I could keep the .44's and ditch everything else.

I remember reading several articles about trappers and sour-doughs in Alaska who got along quite well with a good bolt rifle in 30/06 and a .22 pistol. Not a bad choice and one I could live with. I have a whole list of "other things" that I would like to have with me, but I thought this was about guns, so that is what I listed.
Everyone's comments are interesting.

[jkbrea]

Trapper/hunter cabins tended to be on the smallish side. Back when the tusk hunters were culling the Yellowstone elk herds, those boys built shelters so small they had to come outside just to change their minds. I've run across remnants of these "cabins" that were no more than 5 X 6 feet, usually dug into a hillside or on a small sheltered rise along a creek bank. Walls were seldom more than 3" high, even when "new" and being lived in. a place for a bed on one wall, with a tiny stove or fireplace in a corner, away from the door, pretty well describes the set-up. Remember too, that the tuskers became an object of manhunts by the folks in Jackson's Hole, because of the sudden and catastrophic demise of the elk herds. It behooved the tuskers to lie low, and be very much invisible, if possible.

I ran across one of those small short cabins, or what was left of it while on horseback outside of Jackson, north of Hoback River. Couldn't figure out what it was. Midget mountain men??? . I thought maybe it was some type of storage building. Glad you told me. I often wondered about it.

[El Chivo]

(I actually love the 35 Remington more, but ammunition
is much more readily available for the 30-30, as are
suitable 30 caliber bullets. So, mebbe the 30-30... )

where in the mountains is 30-30 ammunition readily available? I haven't run across a 30-30 tree.

i.e., you're going to have to bring it in with you regardless of caliber, you might as well take what you want.

[Hobie]

I don't think the original question was about actually being a mountain man as in days of yore. More like going out for an extended stay for PLEASURE with the ability to drop by local stores now and then. In that situation the commonness of ammunition could be a plus (although nobody loads "grouse" loads anymore).

However, back "in the day" the mountain men would trade for caps, powder and lead at the rendezvous. They cast their own bullets so caliber wasn't a concern. If we did find ourselves back in that or a similar situation you would indeed be using what you could find, what you had regardless of chambering. Remember, Jeremiah Johnson started off with a .36 cal. rifle. Imagine that!

[firefuzz]

Remember, Jeremiah Johnson started off with a .36 cal. rifle. Imagine that!

Yea, but it was a shur 'nuff Hawken.

Rob

[MrMurphy]

I'm not a real "outdoorsman" type, though I've spent considerable time in the field.

I'd take a .30-06 or .308 boltgun with aperature sights and a decent scope.

A major caliber pistol (for the purpose of this exercise, probably a Blackhawk) in .357 or .44 Magnum.

Toss in a .22 bolt action (tube fed Marlin), 2 bricks of .22, a few hundred rounds for the other 2 and a bunch of survival/game-trapping books.

[2X22]

(although nobody loads "grouse" loads anymore).

There are going to be a lot of pesky grouse breathing easy with a false assumption around here for a while...........

2x22

[Modoc ED]

With all the ammo, lead, powder, and reloading components you guys are talking about taking with you, not to mention all the guns, you're going to need a pack mule, or a stout wife to carry it all. And then, what are you going to carry the rest of your stuff on?

[L_Kilkenny]

My original post on this thread was multiple guns for more of a base camp/cabin scenario.

But I don't think too many of us would argue that if we switch this over to more of a "moving around" scenario that I/we wouldn't feel too undergunned with any centerfire repeating rifle. I don't think I'd be too picky. Oh maybe I would limit myself to a minumum of .25 cal. and really don't have a need/want for any of the magnums but I don't care if it's a lever, bolt, semi or pump gun.

LK

[stretch]

where in the mountains is 30-30 ammunition readily available? I haven't run across a 30-30 tree.

i.e., you're going to have to bring it in with you regardless of caliber, you might as well take what you want.

You haven't seen the 30-30 trees in the mountains these days?!
They're ALL OVER the place, man. See, modern deer and elk graze on the
mast, which is why everybody needs a magnum to kill anything these
days - the critters just eat the ol' 30-30 for breakfast........

Seriously, though - even the old-time mountain men would come into
town once in awhile - for powder, or lead, whiskey, a woman, or a spree.
They'd also run across other folks in the hills from time to time. 30-30 is
more common these days than 35 Rem, and whether you're bartering or
buying, it's more likely you'll find 30-30 in a small, out-of-the-way place
than you'll find 35 Remington. Same argument for any components one
might bring - they have to be replaced at some point, and 30 cal. stuff
is more common.

If I was a mountain man, I might not be willing to haul around reloading
supplies if I lived semi-nomadically. If I had an established cabin or
homestead, then I might just bring the 35 REM, too!!


-Stretch

[gak]

+1 Stretch. The only "supplies" I think I'd be hauling around would be directly related to shelter (warmth and "dryth") first aid, food and grog, and directly related to food gathering--meaning fishing line/snares, and "complete" ammo,...and use the latter sparingly.
I'm liking a Featherweight or Mt. Rifle .270, '06, 7mm-08 or .308 with Single Six .22 combo more and more. A 24" .30-30 round barrel wouldn't be bad either. It's right up there on the "if I could only have one rifle" list, along with its carbine stablemate. I like the lever more for its handiness of carry, as you'd presumably be doing more of that than shooting.

[Booger Bill]

Just tuned in and hadnt read all the replys here. I would need more background to the question like do you mean today, or back in 1825? Are we going to take todays guns back to 1825? In 1825 you were apt to walk on top a grizzley on the plains in kansas or south dakota. They dont exist there today. If I was going to the mountains and know it would be likely for a year or two before I was walking out, then or now, the first thing I would be looking at is reliability! Everything else would be secondary. I think I would be tempted to carry two identical rifles for the sake of a spare part.
I used to read a lot. One good book was about yellostone kelly. He joined the union army just before the end of the civil war. Because of the time frame of his enlistment they sent him west. He stayed out there on his own at the end of his enlistment. Thinking about it, I belive dances with wolves could have almost been losely wrote about him. Wild game was very abundment when he 1st went out. He wrote of sometimes seeing deer, antelope, elk and buffalo all in the same view at one time! He started out with a .44 henry rimfire, and killed even buffalo with it! Today we would be lucky to not starve to death durring some periods of time unless you wanted to poach somebodys cow!
I own about 15 rifles. The truth is probley any one of a dozzen of them would be as good as the other!
This may sound strange. I own a model 70 prewar .300 H&H, browning safari 308, browning bar 30-06, a couple of winchester 30-30s, couple of 92s in .357 & 44 mag, a ruger 77 in 7x57, a win 88 in .308, a custom mauser in .270, a win 95 in 30-40 and a few more I am forgetting. I inherited a remington 760 pump in 30-06 with a lyman peep when dad died. I had it sitting in the safe untried since 2003 when he died and finaly tried it out last year. What a pleasant surprise! It was a lot more accurate with that sight than I hoped for, it is accurate and in 30-06! A pump is fast enough for anybody. I think it would also be a fine fighting weapon with a couple extra clips if need be. I think that would be a good rifle to take.
The next gun to take would be a fine .22 LR. In either a rifle or handgun. Quiet, accurate, can carry many rounds easily. Too many out there to say one is better than another. But if this is dance with the one ya brung, it would be my winchester 63. I also have a very old early fine shape ruger single six. I learned on a similar one 50 years ago and am used to it.
I am a revolver guy with a large collection of many calibers. I carried them over 35 years on my job and still carry them daily rideing quad in the boonies. I am most partial to .44 special. Light, accurate and powerfull enough for any job. Can I take one too?
Since we are only takeing two guns I guess it will just be the remington and the ruger single six. (the remington 760 was to big to post)

[jcw]

That's a lot of firepower. A lot of ammo also. Me I think I'd take a 12 or 20 ga and a .22 revolver.

[Buck Elliott]

Anyone thinking of heading off into the tall-uncut, or dwelling amid the peaks of the Shining Mountains (for any extended length of time), had better keep in mind that MOBILITY will be the key to your success. You'll also find that, as has been mentioned, firearms may turn out to be among the least-important items you can have with you, on a day-to-day basis.

After some twenty years of spending my summers in and around the Teton Wilderness Area, I found that a good reliable revolver was much more of a security blanket, than an everyday tool. Granted, we packed in our food for the trip, but even without that, primitive fishing gear or traps & snares would have proved much more useful (and noiseless) than any assortment of firepower, if we'd needed fresh meat for supper.

BTW, an area just off Yellowstone Meadows, between the River and the Park, is the place Farthest from a Road in the lower 48...

Quite often, a full bore BRAIN will get you a lot farther than a big bore rifle...

A warm, dry bedroll will become worth its weight in GOLD, when things get drippy and cold, which can happen with sodden regularity in the high parks.

If you have horses/mules in your entourage, you'll need to find new grazing for them, at least every few days. Summer comes late to the high country, and grass will be neither plentiful nor nutritious until almost July, in many places. "Refueling," as someone mentioned above, may not always be convenient, or even available.

I could go on, but I hope you get my drift...

At any rate, there's a lot more to the life than meets the casual eye... Lots of early "pilgrims" never made the journey back to hearth & home...

[Doc Hudson]

If I were headed into the far side of way out yoneder with the intention of living off the land and not comin down from the mountains more than every two or three years, I'd want to simplify.

Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with the OP's choices, but I'd make it as simple as possible, with the smallest possible pack load, with the simplest firearms, and few calibers.

For a side arm, I'd go with either a Colt Single-Action Army or one of it's Italian copies. For a big game rifle , I'd take an H&R Handi-Rifle in .45-70 Gov't along with a 12 gauge barrel. I'd also carry in a Ruger Single-Six and my old marlin Golden Model 39-A along with a few thousand rounds of ammo. In addition to the guns, I'd carry a complete set of small parts for each gun and the tools to install them. I'd also carry at least 50 pounds of FFg blackpowder, 100-200 pounds of lead, bullet moulds, and several thousand primers and a Lee Loader set for revolver, rifle, and shotgun. The reason I opted for blackpowder over smokeless is that all three cartridges can be loaded to effective power using the single powder rather than packing in a lot of different powders. Added to that, I can always make blackpowder if I can find sulfur and niter. I can't make nitro-cellulose powders.

Besides the firearms, ammo and spare parts, I'd want a good axe, a couple or three hatchets, a set of good knives, and a saw.

[AJMD429]

I suppose if it were going to be "a long time" out there, I'd consider just a .50 Savage ML-10 muzzleloader for my rifle; I probably would pack in some SR-4759 or IMR-4227 or 5744, all of which I could use without cartridge cases, and 'reloading' tools, as long as I had primers and sabots galore (both of which I could fit a lifetime supply of in a breadbag). Yes, I'd take bullets, but in a pinch, I could shoot anything what would fit in a sabot.

I'd then take a handgun, for more protection-oriented purposes, chambered in something I could use those same powders in. I'd stick with light enough loads I could use a Lee hand press or even a Lyman 310 for; since for the Savage I'd likely be using .45 pistol bullets, a .45 Colt Redhawk would be logical. Primers as well.

If I wanted to get real 'fancy' I could have a breech-plug machined which would utilize the LP primers instead of the 209's for the muzzleloader, as some already do.

If I had tons of pack-space and a mule, I'd tote along a good air-rifle and plenty of pellets (...or maybe sabots for that, too...!).

Other options I thought about would include:

• Just the Redhawk and no other gun - maybe the best option without a mule.
  Just the Savage ML-10 and no other gun - but what about self defense, bears?
  A rimfire rifle and the Redhawk - still doable without a mule, rimfire for 'pot meat' quieter, cheaper?
  A .45 Colt Marlin and the Redhawk - at least they'd share the same ammo, but would I need both?
  A .45 Colt Marlin and a rimfire pistol - but I might lay the rifle down and only have a rimfire when need arose.
  A .44 Magnum 'theme' instead of .45 Colt...

Anyway, perhaps the .50 ML-10 & .45 Colt Redhawk would be best - between those two guns, anything needing shot would get shot well.

[loader]

A Savage 24 .357/20 guage and .357 revolver along with plenty of snares should keep one fed and protected just about anywhere.

[Nath]

A Savage 24 .357/20 guage and .357 revolver along with plenty of snares should keep one fed and protected just about anywhere.

The newer Savage 24 ain't reliable enough! The old ones are and a shade lighter in 20g x 22lr.

Nath.

[2X22]

A Savage 24 .357/20 guage and .357 revolver along with plenty of snares should keep one fed and protected just about anywhere.

I had one of these back in the very early '80's. Only a few produced and like a dummy, traded it off in a weak moment It was a heckuva shooter too. Usually see 'em online at about $900+, at the last gunshow when I least expected it (read that as not enough cash) there one was, $660

I gotta get another one somehow someday..........

2x22

[Hobie]

Anyone thinking of heading off into the tall-uncut, or dwelling amid the peaks of the Shining Mountains (for any extended length of time), had better keep in mind that MOBILITY will be the key to your success. You'll also find that, as has been mentioned, firearms may turn out to be among the least-important items you can have with you, on a day-to-day basis.

After some twenty years of spending my summers in and around the Teton Wilderness Area, I found that a good reliable revolver was much more of a security blanket, than an everyday tool. Granted, we packed in our food for the trip, but even without that, primitive fishing gear or traps & snares would have proved much more useful (and noiseless) than any assortment of firepower, if we'd needed fresh meat for supper.

BTW, an area just off Yellowstone Meadows, between the River and the Park, is the place Farthest from a Road in the lower 48...

Quite often, a full bore BRAIN will get you a lot farther than a big bore rifle...

A warm, dry bedroll will become worth its weight in GOLD, when things get drippy and cold, which can happen with sodden regularity in the high parks.

If you have horses/mules in your entourage, you'll need to find new grazing for them, at least every few days. Summer comes late to the high country, and grass will be neither plentiful nor nutritious until almost July, in many places. "Refueling," as someone mentioned above, may not always be convenient, or even available.

I could go on, but I hope you get my drift...

At any rate, there's a lot more to the life than meets the casual eye... Lots of early "pilgrims" never made the journey back to hearth & home...

I was wondering about the furthest from the road place. Anyway, you can't go gettin' all reasonable on us. Walter Mitty is alive and well. I bet if he were buried there wouldn't be a single flintlock, cap-n-ball, single-action, or single-shot gun in existence. For certain all us gun nuts think on the possibilities at some point. Reality is sometimes a heavy burden!

Last night I was looking at real estate prices in northern Montana. Had Google Earth on and was examining some places in detail (where possible). I am amazed at the sheer amount of tilled land out there.

[Buck Elliott]

Hobie, I'm just tryin' real hard to make a brief for reality; to save some poor, errant soul from giving in to a terminally advanced case of Mittyism, and launching himself into a world for which he is ill-prepared -- at best -- and mentally, physically or logistically unsuited to...

We used to run into such pilgrims, on occasion, literally wandering the wilderness with no food, no water, no real idea of just where they were, nor how to get where they wanted to go. I remeber encountering a pair of "hikers" who had traversed Yellowstone Park, from Cooke City, MT almost to Turpin Meadows on the Buffalo Fork of the Snake. They had been out of food for nearly 4 days, and out of water for two. They still had their bear bells on, and we heard 'em coming before we could see them. Our group had just remounted after a lunch break, and a couple of the ponies got a bit "snorty" at the approach of these apparitions. They were mumbling incoherently and stumbling along the trail towards us trying desperately to bouy each other up, I suppose. They haltingly described their plight, so we gave them a good stock of lunch left-overs: fruit, granola bars, candy bars, and told them to get water from a spring on the hillside by our lunch area. They were aghast at the thought of drinking untreated water, but I reckon thirst and our proddings finally convinced them it wasn't going to kill them, and if it did, it wouldn't be today... Never did find out for sure if they made it out, but they were only about 2 hours from the trailhead when we left them. Never found any bones...

The Summer "foot-backers" were pitiful enough, but finding supposedly strong men, lost in the back country during hunting season, in pretty much the same condition, is downright scary. Maybe a fog bank got them confused, or a game trail led them astray... They lost their landmarks; lost their back-trail or their bearings, then slowly began to lose their minds... A couple have been come upon, at different times, sitting in a total stupor -- again, their lunch was gone; they had no water with them or else had drunk it all already, and didn't know where, or were afraid to drink "wild" water, even from a clear spring, just yards from their position...

Whatever they carried for armament was of little or no use or importance to them, in their state of mind. THAT kind of "thinking" will get you killed, surer than being jumped by wolves or bears or mountain lions...

So --- Plan and think; dream and theorize -- but always keep a little warning bell in the back of your brain, for the realities that such a journey holds in store...

Really, my signature line says it all...

But, that's just me...

[Hobie]

I hope I didn't mislead, I did enjoy the post hence the .

[Buck Elliott]

Maybe I should write a book --- or two...

[Hobie]

Maybe I should write a book --- or two...

If you haven't, you should. I'd suggest you get that software that JT uses so you can talk your way through it. I would hate to type a book myself and I've done it!

[kimwcook]

Well, just like Jeremiah Johnson I wouldn't do it without a horse to ride and a mule or horse for packing. That said, I'd take my Win. '86 in 45-90, Win. 94-22 in 22LR, and a Colt SAA in 45 Colt for firearms. I think that answers the OP. For the rest of it I don't want to give it the time to type it out. But, I will say I'm pretty much with Buck. I've gone through a shortened version of the USAF winter survival school while in the Corps and if you have the time, snares and deadfalls work 24/7. You just need a bunch of them.

[Poohgyrr]

This is like a more serious, still fun though, version of when we go camping. Given for this I still don't want to carry all my gear on my back, a mule or whatever sounds good. And a well trained dog, NOT for eating. LOL shame on you guys - like, go eat snails or something. Some of my neighbors maybe, not my dogs!

Say I can get to some kind of civilization when needed, not very often. I still wonder if a pair of properly loaded .357s wouldn't do fine for me. Both the guns and the ammo pack lighter; and .38 wadcutters to the hardcast 180s at 1800+ should do what I need. Stumbling on a bear that charges is going to be bad even with an '06. If I have that mule, maybe I'll add a 45-70 Marlin for bears; I don't know.

So, a 4" stainless 8 shot .357 S&W, and a M92; or maybe just a 3" - 4" 6 shot M66 & the Lever. I will miss the other guns. And remember: Eat snails, not dogs!

[kimwcook]

Some snails are poisonous. I'm not aware of any poisonous dogs.

[Chris83716]

Nath,

What are the issues with the newer Savage model 24? Inquiring minds want to know. Especially since I bought one last week for a walking around and always in the truck gun.

Chris

[madman4570]

One of the scary things to me about backpacking to far out, is the snakes.
TV makes it out that if you get bit by a rattlesnake/copperhead etc. you can just wrap it and make out ok.
From what I have seen really happens is its a very short time say after getting bit by a big eastern diamondback that you start becoming disorientated/problems with heart/respirations etc.
I cannot imagine being alone or even with someone if you are out so far(no cell service etc.) that by the time your buddy does make it out for help(say going 10 miles )by the time help comes you might be dead anyway.

[Buck Elliott]

"...Ye can't cheat the mountain, Pilgrim." ("Bearclaw" Chris Lapp -- to Jeremiah Johnson)

[Fiddler]

I must admit that I've fantasized about this mountain man stuff myself. However, at any time other than the allotted two-week firearm hunting season where we can act out our mountain man fantasies as long as we possess all proper licenses and tags, here's pretty much the scenario we can count on:
Your campfire will be spotted by either a satellite or a predator drone. This data will be forwarded to the local authorities. A little girl in pigtails, ranger hat, and a .357 on her hip will follow her GPS unit to your mountain hideaway and arrest you for poaching, tresspassing, unauthorized campfires, and conduct unbecoming of a mountain man.
Part of your community service punishment will consist of visiting ghetto schools and explaining to the kids why animal cruelty ain't cool.

[Nath]

Nath,

What are the issues with the newer Savage model 24? Inquiring minds want to know. Especially since I bought one last week for a walking around and always in the truck gun.

Chris

I answered your PM I had firing pins break and had to make my own of which never failed. The shotgun pin was to short.
The F pins retaning screws fell out because of poor tapped holes.

Once I got it reliable it was very accurate if heavy. All the smaller earlier all steel ones are better IMO.




Buck, good post.

I use to get in a large forest in Scotland and we never took water, there was a spring next to the cabin. It was the nicest water one could wish for, to cook with ,wash in or tip in your whiskey

In the widerness mother nature rewards those that keep it simple and those who study her ways. She hates consumerism though

N.

[Malamute]

I must admit that I've fantasized about this mountain man stuff myself. However, at any time other than the allotted two-week firearm hunting season where we can act out our mountain man fantasies as long as we possess all proper licenses and tags, here's pretty much the scenario we can count on:
Your campfire will be spotted by either a satellite or a predator drone. This data will be forwarded to the local authorities. A little girl in pigtails, ranger hat, and a .357 on her hip will follow her GPS unit to your mountain hideaway and arrest you for poaching, tresspassing, unauthorized campfires, and conduct unbecoming of a mountain man.
Part of your community service punishment will consist of visiting ghetto schools and explaining to the kids why animal cruelty ain't cool.

I'm hoping you're saying that that's the case in the area you live. It isnt that way everywhere. Hunting varies in different areas, but some places still allow year round varmint/camp meat hunting, and the various big and small game seasons overlap and extend for months. Other than particulalry dry years with times of high fire danger, nobody is going to tell you to put your fire out or where to camp, or that you can't camp, other than moving a camp every couple weeks to limit impact on a partcular spot. Perhaps not as free as the mid 1800's, but nowhere near as bad as where you live.

Must be pretty bad to have satellites retasked to look for a campfire, and predator drones in the air looking for campers. Never heard of such things. I know folks that get out in the mountains here at various times of the year, and nobodys ever been told they can't do whatever they're doing so far as I've heard. I very rarely see anyone out away from a road.

[Meeteetse]

I must admit that I've fantasized about this mountain man stuff myself. However, at any time other than the allotted two-week firearm hunting season where we can act out our mountain man fantasies as long as we possess all proper licenses and tags, here's pretty much the scenario we can count on:
Your campfire will be spotted by either a satellite or a predator drone. This data will be forwarded to the local authorities. A little girl in pigtails, ranger hat, and a .357 on her hip will follow her GPS unit to your mountain hideaway and arrest you for poaching, tresspassing, unauthorized campfires, and conduct unbecoming of a mountain man.
Part of your community service punishment will consist of visiting ghetto schools and explaining to the kids why animal cruelty ain't cool.

I'm hoping you're saying that that's the case in the area you live. It isnt that way everywhere. Hunting varies in different areas, but some places still allow year round varmint/camp meat hunting, and the various big and small game seasons overlap and extend for months. Other than particulalry dry years with times of high fire danger, nobody is going to tell you to put your fire out or where to camp, or that you can't camp, other than moving a camp every couple weeks to limit impact on a partcular spot. Perhaps not as free as the mid 1800's, but nowhere near as bad as where you live.

Must be pretty bad to have satellites retasked to look for a campfire, and predator drones in the air looking for campers. Never heard of such things. I know folks that get out in the mountains here at various times of the year, and nobodys ever been told they can't do whatever they're doing so far as I've heard. I very rarely see anyone out away from a road.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
+++1 Malamute. . . . .I would be real disappointed to think that the Rocky Mtns had fallen to eastern or west coast thinking. I roamed the high lonesome of WY for over 50 years before my knees said "no more". I do still enjoy visiting my uncle's place in the mountains in central WY, but I do miss the days of woods loafing by myself or with a couple of friends. We all learned something new each time we spent time in the hills. Being a mountain man is easy to dream about but hard to do. I do miss those long summer days in a high mountain cow camp just watching the cattle feed and cutting firewood. Thinking back, I always had a .22 rifle and a Ruger SA .45 Colt to keep me warm. Worked then, ought to work now.

[Old Time Hunter]

I must admit that I've fantasized about this mountain man stuff myself. However, at any time other than the allotted two-week firearm hunting season where we can act out our mountain man fantasies as long as we possess all proper licenses and tags, here's pretty much the scenario we can count on:
Your campfire will be spotted by either a satellite or a predator drone. This data will be forwarded to the local authorities. A little girl in pigtails, ranger hat, and a .357 on her hip will follow her GPS unit to your mountain hideaway and arrest you for poaching, tresspassing, unauthorized campfires, and conduct unbecoming of a mountain man.
Part of your community service punishment will consist of visiting ghetto schools and explaining to the kids why animal cruelty ain't cool.

I'm hoping you're saying that that's the case in the area you live. It isnt that way everywhere. Hunting varies in different areas, but some places still allow year round varmint/camp meat hunting, and the various big and small game seasons overlap and extend for months. Other than particulalry dry years with times of high fire danger, nobody is going to tell you to put your fire out or where to camp, or that you can't camp, other than moving a camp every couple weeks to limit impact on a partcular spot. Perhaps not as free as the mid 1800's, but nowhere near as bad as where you live.

Must be pretty bad to have satellites retasked to look for a campfire, and predator drones in the air looking for campers. Never heard of such things. I know folks that get out in the mountains here at various times of the year, and nobodys ever been told they can't do whatever they're doing so far as I've heard. I very rarely see anyone out away from a road.

I don't know where you are Malamute, but I have a small parcel of land just north of Huson, Mt and a few years ago we set up camp to clear some of the land. Two days later a Forest Ranger showed up demanding that we accompany her to the local constable office. She told us that we were going to be charged with tresspassing, vandalism, and camping without a permit. Cost me better than a grand to hire a lawyer to walk out without even an apology. Apparently the ranger picked up the campfire while perusing the live access "Google" earth site available to government law enforcement (we civilians only can get the 'after' version, not live as each view has to be cleared for public viewing).

[C. Cash]

That is insane Old Time, and thanks for passing on the info. As the times get more "interesting" and average people are labled as criminals by the beancounters, that is good, good info to know. Frontiersmen of old used stay in "Rockhouses" or the smallish cliff overhangs that occur in the East. No fire would be visable from above. They also used anything that would conceal them....huddled up in a hollowed out tree for example. Remember they were trying to avoid the best of the best in terms of tracking and detection....Native Americans, and many did it enough to survive for a very long time. If a guy could find a smallish cave and use that as a base of operations for as long as possible, he wouldn't have to worry so much about a small fire being spotted from above, or someone seeing from the ground. Not that I would ever be found in a cave....

Good posts fellas, and great topic.

[Malamute]

Wyoming.

Sounds like you have the makings of a fair lawsuit for false arrest, harrasement, and recovery of legal expenses. You may be able to have her charged with tresspass also if she came onto private land to do what she did. You can and should complain all the way up the chain of command about that incident. Those sort of people need to find another line of work.

If she came onto private land demanding anything, you should have stood your ground and asked that a supervisor be sent out, with a GPS. Personally, if on private land, and having good corners, I wouldnt have gone anywhere with her.

Not meaning to sound negative, but sometimes comments are made (that do sound negative) that don't apply to all places. Some places don't have such a heavy hand of control over them. I chose to live where it isnt that way. If that happened in Montana, I'd be curious to know where. I've not heard of Huson. There are vast areas of National Forest in the Rockies that have little restriction on campng or other uses, within certain guidelines I mentioned before. I've roamed around much of it over the past 25 or so years, (and 8 years in N Ariz before coming here) and know many many folks that get out into it regularly. I havent heard of any harrasement of folks camping, horse packing, hunting, shooting, or whatever.

I've never heard of a "permit" to camp on National Forest, other than in developed campgrounds, or large groups taken in by outfitters. How can you tresspass on public land?

[Old Time Hunter]

I've never heard of a "permit" to camp on National Forest, other than in developed campgrounds, or large groups taken in by outfitters. How can you tresspass on public land?

It was, and is MY land. Huson is just a short ways west of Missoula, right before you get to the Clark Fork, past Nine Mile and Frenchtown. I should clarify, she claimed we needed a "permit" to establish a "logging" camp and also required a "permit" to harvest timber on public land. What she did not do her good diligence on was that it was MY land, not public...and I have ALL mineral rights along with ALL water covenants. My boys and I were clearing a section of land, being very judicious as to what we were cutting, we stripped the timber, cut it at 'bolt' size as much as possible, and still hope to use most of it for the primary exterior of a planned abode, as my portable ripsaw mill is still sitting there. Provided the economy recovers enough to make it financially feesible. My overpriced Missoula lawyer did file a complaint with the Forestry department, but never got anything back from them. It has been about 3 and a half years and since the charges were not legally dismissed until a year after, we kind of lost sight of what went on. The real issue here is, big sister is watching!

[Malamute]

I looked up Huson after I posted. I've been through the area a number of times, on the interstate, and bushbumming around up and down the Bitteroot and Flathead country. I'm suprised they pulled a stunt like that.

I know it was your land, I made the comment about camping permits because you had mentioned it. She wouldnt have had a reason to try to charge you with camping without a permit outside of a large group camp or developed campground. If it was permits regarding a lumber camp, that would be a different issue, tho if on private land, I simply wouldnt have gone with her, and insisted that she get a supervisor and GPS on the site before even talking to her further. I would have asked her to leave the private property as well, called her agency on the spot to report and complain about her conduct, and pressed charges if she did not leave. I don't want to come off wrong here. I have the utmost respect for LE, and have a number of good friends that are active and former LE, but this situation was completely out of line on her part. The burden of proof was on her, not you.

Maybe their budget isn't as large around here, but nobody seems to be paying too awful much attention to what folks do in Natioanl Forest around here, other than the few things I mentioned. Let them watch, there's little they can do so long as you keep a clean camp, (bear and trash wise) and don't act like you're going to move in. I've camped all over the mountains here, and nobody's ever checked on my fire or anything else. Oh, one time a ranger came by when I was truck camped and checked to see that I had the compulsory shovel and bucket, in case the fire got out of hand. Seemed like a decent sort.

[Buck Elliott]

I DID get hassled a few years ago, by some newly-minted Dudley Doright in a USFS uniform, who heard gunshots from somewhere along the North Fork highway and came to investigate the source. He marched straight toward my position, up a rather steep hill, in the open, looking for someone who obviously had a firearm and had been shooting. He proceeded to inform me that shooting was prohibited on the National Forest, within 1/2-mile of the highway, from some date in May through the end(?) of August, and produced a Forest Use rule book to iluustrate his point. I then chided this 90-day wonder for being so suicidally stupid as to advance on an unknown, armed citizen in such a manner, then asked where & how I might obtain my own copy of that same little book he was so proud of. He said he didn't know. He wrote out a "contact" slip and left, the same way he came.

Several times in the last few years, I have inquired at the local USFS HQ, and have been told that such books are not available to the public... When I asked how I was supposed to know the rules, if I couldn't have access to them, they just shrugged their collective shoulders and said they didn't know and really didn't really care. That was MY problem...

Out tax dollars at work...

[Buck Elliott]

Years ago, the Teton Wilderness Area(and most other wildernesses) had roving Back Country Rangers, whose job it was to contact back country users; make sure they were behaving safely, and do genral PR work for the FS. "Budget cuts" pretty well did away with those folks, who were, for the most part, congenial outdoor types, who preferred to educate rather than dictate. We always had VERY good relations with that particular bunch, and even missed their contact when they were pulled off the forest.

The current crew of bureaucrats in the USFS is not nearly so pleasant to work with, and the whole program suffers for it. The NPS is even worse, if anything...

[Rexster]

Gentlemen, thanks for an interesting thread! I have nothing to offer, of course, except a lamentation that there is so little wilderness in which to go on a walkabout with a rifle, far from a road. My home state of Texas is particularly short of such places.

[kimwcook]

I guess I haven't lived. Old Time Hunter, I'm sorry to hear about your predicament and I don't know exactly what I'd of done, but I wouldn't of dropped the issue. Not after someone put me through that without just cause. I'm a thinking she'd of had to call her supervisor and they'd of had to drag me off of my land. Then we'd see where the law suit ended. Incompetance drives me crazy.

[Malamute]

Interesting about the half mile from a road thing. I thought National Forests used the laws of the state they were in for firearms laws. The only restrictions regarding rights-of-ways I knew of are to be outside the border fences along the road, or a certain distance off the roadway, like 20 or 40' if no fence, and not shooting across a roadway.

[Buck Elliott]

Well --- you know our Shoshone Forester... As I understand it, it is her rule, duly published and issued, with full backing by the Regional Office. The "reason" cited, was to avoid 'frightening tourists...'

HER forest -- her rules. That's the way the game is played today. Same in Yellowstone...

[Malamute]

Seems like that would be pretty hard to enforce in state or federal court.

Wyoming as a state is pretty dang independant as far as gun laws go.

[Meeteetse]

Let me add one last thought. My uncle and I have 100 acres that was kept when the ranch was sold a few years back. The acreage is surrounded on three sides by National Forest and on the forth side by private land across which we have rights of ingress and egress. It is basically a box canyon. Last year a surveyor from the BLM was on the land when we arrived. He was obviously surveying and we asked him what he was doing. He said he was surveying for a new high voltage power line (256Kv I think). They intended to run the line on BLM/NF property and I guess just span our land, apparently without asking. We said we didn't think so and asked him to leave. He commented that . . ."he didn't think anyone lived in the area". I asked if he had seen the cabin (900 sq. ft) and if that didn't turn some lights on for him. He said he figured it was a seasonal cabin so not really a problem. We informed him that my uncle lives there year round and has for nearly 10 years. We filed a freedom of information request concerning the power line and we were told that the power line had been moved 10 miles to the south. Got to watch the feds, they are a sneaky bunch.

[phc45-70]

Ever since I was just a pup I dreamed of being a mountian man and did manage to spend a few falls in the high country guiding hunts for some 3 months at a time. But the other evening while watching "America" The Story of Us, the narrator stated that the mountian men of old had to eat 6000 calories a day to manitain their weight. I guess that explains why I always lost so much weight in camp. I only ate what I would normally eat at best, but I have never been what you would call over weight. To eat some 3 times as much as I normally do I would have to have 2 full time cooks, a supply line running constantly and be chewing on something about 10 hrs a day.