.45 colt ballistics
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.45 colt ballistics
What was the original Army load bullet size and velocity of the .45 Colt? Can this load be safely duplicated with smokeless powder for use in a modern SAA clone?
Mark Dickinson
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Re: .45 colt ballistics
Without researching it and only going by memory reading years ago, I belive the original BP load in the 7 1/2" colt saa was like 255 gr and smokeing out close to 900 fps.
- Buck Elliott
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Re: .45 colt ballistics
Original load was a 250- or 255-gr. lead bullet over 40 gr. FFg Black Powder, in "balloon-head" (folded) cases.
For various reasons, the load was soon reduced to as little as 28 gr., under a 230-gr. slug, equalling the .45 S&W loading, ballistically. (The .45 ACP duplicated those ballistics: 230 gr. bullet at approx. 800 fps...)
The current "solid-head" .45 Colt cases do not have as much internal capacity as the originals, and will hold slightly less powder.
Any of the current loading manuals can give you safe loads, using smokeless powders, that will provide you the 900 fps velocity of the originals.
Get SEVERAL Loading Manuals and READ them -- not just the load information, but the technical articles and advice contained in each, BEFORE you emabark on your new adventure in hand-loading...
For various reasons, the load was soon reduced to as little as 28 gr., under a 230-gr. slug, equalling the .45 S&W loading, ballistically. (The .45 ACP duplicated those ballistics: 230 gr. bullet at approx. 800 fps...)
The current "solid-head" .45 Colt cases do not have as much internal capacity as the originals, and will hold slightly less powder.
Any of the current loading manuals can give you safe loads, using smokeless powders, that will provide you the 900 fps velocity of the originals.
Get SEVERAL Loading Manuals and READ them -- not just the load information, but the technical articles and advice contained in each, BEFORE you emabark on your new adventure in hand-loading...
Last edited by Buck Elliott on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Re: .45 colt ballistics
What Bill said.
8.5-9 grs of unique duplicates the original load very well.
8.5-9 grs of unique duplicates the original load very well.
- J Miller
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Re: .45 colt ballistics
Nope, the original military load for the .45 Colt or "Colt's Revolver, Cal. .45" was 30 grs of black powder under a 250gr bullet in a Benét inside primed copper case.
First cartridge in Pic #2.
This was loaded by Frankfort Arsenal in 1873-4 only. Late 1874 they discontinued production of it and went to the shorter version that would fit in both the Colt's and S&Ws. Second cartridge in Pic #2.
Joe
First cartridge in Pic #2.
This was loaded by Frankfort Arsenal in 1873-4 only. Late 1874 they discontinued production of it and went to the shorter version that would fit in both the Colt's and S&Ws. Second cartridge in Pic #2.
Joe
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***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: .45 colt ballistics
I'm going to try this again as the first post died somewhere.
Over the past 40 years I have for personal satisfaction disected every black powder cartridge i could get more than one of, and to date I have data on over 100 different black powder loading. II also have a modest collection of catalogs and sporting books from the 1800-1900 era. All that said i will pass on what I have found...
The Military 45 Colt Round started as an inside primed round and went to what we today call a balloon head case. All the Frankfort balloon head cases i have taken apart had by measurement 28-30 grains of a course FFG/Fg powder and a 250 grain bulllet with a modest hollow base/indent. The variance on powder is due to the fact that cartridges were loaded to VELOCITY with a ballistic pendulum not to just x number of grains of powder. They wanted uniform velocity and each lot of powder had to be calibrated to produce this velocity. A Frankfort 1890 round chronographed ran 780 Fps from a 7 1/2" barrel SAA. This in it self only proves that that was the velocity from that particular gun with a shell 100 years old, but is is in line with published data of the era.
In 45 Colt commercial loads I have never found ANY 40 grain loads. This includes W/W, Peters, Western Tool and Copper, and Remington All loads disassembled have had between 35-37 grains of FFg grain size powder with some grains running from Fg to FFFg. Determining what grain size was used in a particular load after 100 years of shaking and banging around and bullet compression is almost impossible to verify.
No
Over the past 40 years I have for personal satisfaction disected every black powder cartridge i could get more than one of, and to date I have data on over 100 different black powder loading. II also have a modest collection of catalogs and sporting books from the 1800-1900 era. All that said i will pass on what I have found...
The Military 45 Colt Round started as an inside primed round and went to what we today call a balloon head case. All the Frankfort balloon head cases i have taken apart had by measurement 28-30 grains of a course FFG/Fg powder and a 250 grain bulllet with a modest hollow base/indent. The variance on powder is due to the fact that cartridges were loaded to VELOCITY with a ballistic pendulum not to just x number of grains of powder. They wanted uniform velocity and each lot of powder had to be calibrated to produce this velocity. A Frankfort 1890 round chronographed ran 780 Fps from a 7 1/2" barrel SAA. This in it self only proves that that was the velocity from that particular gun with a shell 100 years old, but is is in line with published data of the era.
In 45 Colt commercial loads I have never found ANY 40 grain loads. This includes W/W, Peters, Western Tool and Copper, and Remington All loads disassembled have had between 35-37 grains of FFg grain size powder with some grains running from Fg to FFFg. Determining what grain size was used in a particular load after 100 years of shaking and banging around and bullet compression is almost impossible to verify.
No
Re: .45 colt ballistics
Part 2 What was advertised...
In 1893 Winchester offered 45 Colt's loads as follows: Powder 35 Grains, Bullet 255 Grains fom 1-20 lead tin allow. No velocity is listed. Price per thousand $22.00
1894/95 Montgomery Wards catalog lists 45 Colt's 50 in a box 255 grain bulllet, no powder charge listed.
1910 era Peters 45 Colt (Se the difference COLT) loads by actual measure have a 255 grain bullet with a moderate holllow base or indent. The powder measure out as FFF and FFg and weighed 36 grains. Over the chronograph the loadwent 890 fps for an average of 5, all I could afford to shoot, barrel cleaned between shots due to hardened lube.
1890 Era WTC loads had 35 grains of FFg and chronographed at 900 fps from the same gun.
Modern solid head case will hold 35 grains of FFG max with a drop tube or vibratory setteling. With FFG Elephant powder a 255 gran bulllet from an original 1890 era Ideal mould will go 870 fps average. The lube used was bees wax and bear oil. From a Marlin C/B rifle in 45 Colt the same load went 1140 fps. Swiss powder will go the full 900 fps.
The bottom line is I have NEVER seen an original case with the rumored 40 grain loading. This is not to say that threre wasn't somebody loading 40 but I just can't find that amount in any original case so far examined. And as an aside I would NOT shoot any balloon head cases without full protective gear and I have had two seperations so far both at the base of the case. Sorry this ran so long.
In 1893 Winchester offered 45 Colt's loads as follows: Powder 35 Grains, Bullet 255 Grains fom 1-20 lead tin allow. No velocity is listed. Price per thousand $22.00
1894/95 Montgomery Wards catalog lists 45 Colt's 50 in a box 255 grain bulllet, no powder charge listed.
1910 era Peters 45 Colt (Se the difference COLT) loads by actual measure have a 255 grain bullet with a moderate holllow base or indent. The powder measure out as FFF and FFg and weighed 36 grains. Over the chronograph the loadwent 890 fps for an average of 5, all I could afford to shoot, barrel cleaned between shots due to hardened lube.
1890 Era WTC loads had 35 grains of FFg and chronographed at 900 fps from the same gun.
Modern solid head case will hold 35 grains of FFG max with a drop tube or vibratory setteling. With FFG Elephant powder a 255 gran bulllet from an original 1890 era Ideal mould will go 870 fps average. The lube used was bees wax and bear oil. From a Marlin C/B rifle in 45 Colt the same load went 1140 fps. Swiss powder will go the full 900 fps.
The bottom line is I have NEVER seen an original case with the rumored 40 grain loading. This is not to say that threre wasn't somebody loading 40 but I just can't find that amount in any original case so far examined. And as an aside I would NOT shoot any balloon head cases without full protective gear and I have had two seperations so far both at the base of the case. Sorry this ran so long.
- J Miller
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Re: .45 colt ballistics
KCSO,
Have you ever dissected any UMC black powder .45 Colt cartridges?
It was the UMC ammo packaged in the purple box or with a purple label that Elmer Keith said held a full 40 grs. I only have two of them in my collection and so I won't take them apart.
I've loaded 40 grs of black in balloon head cases and although it can be done, it's a very tight squeeze.
Joe
Have you ever dissected any UMC black powder .45 Colt cartridges?
It was the UMC ammo packaged in the purple box or with a purple label that Elmer Keith said held a full 40 grs. I only have two of them in my collection and so I won't take them apart.
I've loaded 40 grs of black in balloon head cases and although it can be done, it's a very tight squeeze.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: .45 colt ballistics
37 grs of Goex 3f or Grafs/Scheutzen 2f fits with plenty of room for a .030 fiber wad and rcbs 250Kt bullet cast from wheelweights, and the velocity is 875 fps from my 5.5 barrel. The same charge of bp with the remington bulk bullet does 890 from the same gun.