303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

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stew71
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303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by stew71 »

Does anyone have some decent 303 British handload recipes using the Sierra 150gr Pro Hunter? I've tried 3 or 4 combos with only mediocre success. This is out of a 1942 Maltby No4 Mk1 that was rebarreled a few years ago. I just mounted a scope using a no-tap scope mount from Brownells so maybe in the end, it's just my eyes that can't see the darn target. Haven't found time at the range lately to try it out.

But I seem to recall it was shooting some surplus South African ammo quite nicely, so I'm pretty sure the rifle can shoot well.

Thanks.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Kansas Ed »

I don't know what you're going after, but believe it or not..my 1895 Winchester loves the Speer 123gr bullet for the 7.62x39 cartridge. I haven't had any luck with 180's to date. I originally loaded some of the 123's up for my dad to shoot varmint critters with out of his #4 Enfield, but when I was load testing my 1895 I took a box of the loads I'd done for him and ran them through a rifle that I was becoming disappointed in....walla...great groups.

Just a thought, if you can't get the heavier pills to work.

Ed
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Cliff »

One of the main things I have found with most of the Enfields it a wide variance in the groove diameters. Many war production barrels had groove diameters up to .316 diameters. Do a chamber cast and see what kind of throat diameter you have and how much jump from case to rifling origins. These can cause a lot of problems. It can be a challange to get them to shoot consistant groups. Good Luck.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Hobie »

The only .303 Brits I've ever loaded for were No. 1 MK IIIs and No. 4 MK 1 and 1*. ALL preferred bullets in the 174-180 gr. range. The one exception was Mike's beat-to-heck No. 4 MK 1* which liked the HORNADY 150 gr. over a hefty charge of IMR 4320. We ESTIMATED velocity as being about 2700 fps. Mike made a witnessed head shot on a doe at 140 MEASURED yards using the issue sights. I have used several powders for the 180 gr. bullets. The goal is to push the bullets out the barrel at 2400-2450 fps. All the loads came from the manuals.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Old Time Hunter »

My Mk III 1941 Lithgow shoots the 150gr Sierra Pro-Hunters just fine with 35 grains of H4895 right at 2500 fps, plenty fast for me. Likes my cast 165 grain Lee 7.62 X 39 w/GC sized at .312 better yet, 16 grains of Unique get'er down the pike at around 1700 fps. Suckers are accurate though!
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

I haven't tried the 150 Pro Hunters but the 180 Pro Hunters shoot great out of my No4 Mk1* using a max load of 4320 I got out of Sierra's book. I know not what you are looking for.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Naphtali »

Please don't chew my head off for this proviso. Among the several elk hunters and mule deer hunters I know who have used Sierra hunting bullets, (All but one shot 30-06, the other a 300 Winchester Magnum.) no one used Sierra bullets for big game hunting a second time. Their anecdotal reports were essentially identical. Accuracy when developing the used load was excellent. When the animal was shot, accuracy continued to be excellent. Closest shot was less than 50 yards. Farthest shot was within 150 yards. Bullet performance was similar. Excessively rapid expansion with nearly non-fatal lack of penetration. Most bullets fragmented.

I am not among the [former] users. I was not present at any of these kills. I have known the hunters as long as 30 years. I have no reason to disbelieve any of them. I do not know what bullet weights were used by each hunter. I know what they use now, but I don't think its relevant to the proviso.

Just some thoughts.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by stew71 »

Thanks for the responses everyone. I should have mentioned that I'm looking to create a nice accurate load to use in our sniper matches at our local club. We have to use an original as-issued surplus rifle, but modern scopes are permitted. We're shooting at metallic silhouette targets out to 500 meters that are expensive to maintain so no FMJ rounds are allowed. I managed to come into several boxes of the Sierra Pro Hunters hence why I'd like to use them if possible. I've tried a couple of loads with the Sierra 174gr Matchking but again with mediocre results.

Thanks again!
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Cosmoline »

If you do decide to hunt with it, *THE* bullets for hunting big game with a .303 Brit are the Woodleighs from Australia. They've taken everything on the planet this side of Elephant and are fine-tuned to expand well at low impact velocities. Midway has them in stock from time to time. I've always wanted to try the 215 grain RN slugs on something big.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Hobie »

Those Woodleigh bullets are good although expensive. I got the .30-40 to mess with that weight .30-cal bullet at less expense. They shoot well out of my Argentine carbine.

I'm wondering what other problem you have. ALL the .311-.312 174-180 gr. bullets have shot well in all the .303 Brit guns I've used with loads straight from the manuals. If you are expecting 1MOA shooting forget it. However, the guns will easily (with iron sights even) keep their bullets on the chest of the E type silhouette at 600 yards (I KNOW this because I've done it!), ie. the bottom of a 5-gallon bucket. With finagling I think most of these unrebarrled guns are 2-3 MOA guns. The thing is that it seems that they get better the farther out you shoot them. So much so that some might do 3MOA at 100 but 2MOA at 600...

If you are getting patterns rather than groups, you might look at the barrel, bedding and loose sights/mounts.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by J Miller »

Another thing is that the barrels are set up for the 174gr flat based Mk VII bullet. I've had excellent accuracy when I've kept to this weight or 180grs. I've never had the best luck with the lighter bullets.

I've been told by someone here on Leverguns that their Enfield does not shoot well with the boat tailed Mk VIII ball round. I suspect it's the individual rifle in that respect as mine did OK the last time I had it to the range.

I'd suggest getting a Sierra loading manual and using their data. I'd also suggest for the longer ranges getting the Speer 180gr flat based spitzer and trying Win 760 powder. I use the data straight from Winchesters data books.

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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

Hey Joe that was me with the boat tails. Mine has a 2 groove bbl and other folk with the same set up have shared the same problem with me. Mine shoots 1 1/2" at 100 with the flat base 180 Pro Hunters if I have it on a solid rest and do my part. Hobie is right these guns tend to shoot better at longer ranges then closer. The 1:10 twist may have some thing to do with this just takes a bit for the bullet to go to bed.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by J Miller »

Jeremy,

I thought it was you that said that, but I wasn't sure enough to say so.

The very best most accurate 100 yd load for the 303 British I ever had was the Hornady 174gr RN .312" diameter bullet over a good charge of DuPont IMR 4831. That was with my first Enfield a No 4 Mk 1 British made rifle. It had the standard rifling with the left hand twist and would shoot that load into an inch all day long. I literally hand made each round with a Lee Loader. Oh what a PITA! But those rounds turned out real accurate.


I did two stupid things with that Enfield; I sporterized it, then I sold it. What a dufas I was then. I got rid of the Lee Loader when I sold the rifle ... double dufas.

Joe
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

Hey buddy we all makes mistakes. Look at the bright side at least you maned up and replaced that Enfield with others. :D
I am sure I could get much better groups if I went to a hard cast with a gas check mine measures out @ .314 so a pill sized at that should bump up and be a bit more accurate.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Ben_Rumson »

My No. 1 Mk.III* 44 dated Lithgow loves the Sierra 180 Pro Hunters too.. If I seat the bullet out far enough to get good accuracy the cartridges are too long to fit in the magazine..Pity I can't seat them farther out nearer the rifling origin because they definitely will shoot better than 2"-2.5" groups I get.. But I like to run them thru the magazine so they are seated to just barely clear inside it.
I'd wager that J Miller got the great accuracy with the round nose bullets because that blunt ogive on the RN was near the rifling origin. I like the Lee Collet Neck sizing die and use no crimp.
Here's some dope on bedding the No. 4 Rifle
Image
Image
Image
Also you may want to try removing the sleeve in the stock for the front trigger guard screw to see if the receiver will bed better.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

Ben I use the Lee Collet die also with no crimp. I think you are on to something with the round nose I have never tried to seat mine out that far I load to the recommended COL in my books don't remember it off the top of my head right now.

Good article I have it printed out in my gun room.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by trapper45 »

My December '46 No.5 Mk I (the so-called 'jungle carbine') likes the Hornady 150-gr Spire Points over 46.0 gr of Win 760, with Fed 210 priming. With the peep sight flipped up, this load gives 1" 3-shot groups at 100 yards.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by J Miller »

Ben,

Have you ever done the Packing thing to a No4 MkI*? The barrel on mine is so loose you can hold the forearm, shake it and see the barrel move around. It rattles against the stock too.
I'm useless when it comes to bedding a stock, so I was wondering about the Packing.


Trapper 45,
I once had a No5 Mk1 Jungle Carbine. All numbers matched and it was a sweet shooting little thumper. Money got tight and the little thing went away. :cry: :cry: Even made my wife mad at me.
I finally learned. Now that I can't replace the ones I sold.

I think your 46.0gr of 760 is one grain over what I use with the 180s. Not sure though.
Is the Federal 210 their magnum LR primer?

Joe
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by J Miller »

JReed wrote:Hey buddy we all makes mistakes. Look at the bright side at least you maned up and replaced that Enfield with others. :D
I am sure I could get much better groups if I went to a hard cast with a gas check mine measures out @ .314 so a pill sized at that should bump up and be a bit more accurate.
I think if I could find a 175 to 180gr hard cast spitzer I'd give it a try with mine. But the only ones I know of are made and sold by Beartooth and he is right proud of his bullets.
They are 170gr LMN at $17.50 per hundred.

Joe
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Joe.. No I haven't ..I'd try it if I were you..The first No. 4 I had I got rid of before I knew the trick.. Then when I knew it I got rid of a new out the wrap No.4 Mk2 I shot a few times because I found I liked the SMLE better... I did do a form of it on my SMLE with good results..Groups did shrink.. Packing turned it into an all day long 100yd 3" 5 shot grouper. I also applied the idea to a Finn M39..$90.00 back in 94...Uses the same .311" 180 Pro Hunter too :D That rifle has shot several 100yd 1" 5 shot groups. .. I used the Lee Collet neck sizing die on that one too..Eyes have changed.. don't know what I'd get now.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by J Miller »

Well, I've got some rubber gasket material handy so next range trip I'll just give it a try.

Thanks,
Joe
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

Joe have you looked at these? http://www.pennbullets.com/30/30-caliber.html
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Don't forget the graphite :D
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by J Miller »

Jeremy,
Nope, hadn't looked at them. The price seems pretty good. But over each bullet is the comment "Temporarily Suspended". I looked around and couldn't find exactly what he was meaning so I will 'assume' he means the bullets are not orderable right now.

Ben,
I won't.

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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

Oh missed that part I have had that page in my favorites for a long time. Here ya go scroll down to find them http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page5.html
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

I know this is an old thread but been playing with the 150gr ProHunter in my No4 lately and thought I would share.

I am loading to a COAL of 3.054 using PPU brass Win LR primers with 45gr of 4320. With the scope mounted these are going into a .87" group at 100 yards. I worked up starting at 43gr in .5gr incriments with 45 being the best. I dont have a chrony so dont know how fast they are going, out of the Sierra book it is about 2600fps. This also happens to be my favorite powder with the 180gr ProHunters so I am glad that it has word out well.

I think I will be going back to the 180 as it regulates to the iron sights well, but the 150's are a pleasure to shoot with low recoil even my 14 year old enjoys shooting it. The accuracy is better than I would ever expect out of an old Enfield and it would make a great deer load.

If you can get ahold of PPU brass I highly recommend it. I have lost 0 cases out of 100 and they are on their 5th reloading. I neck size and trim as needed and they are holding up well. The RP brass I have on hand is not doing as well. The cases require triming each time and I have lost 3 cases due to signs of pending case head separation and they are only on the 3rd loading.

Disclaimer: All load info is only safe in my rifle and should be aproached with caution! I take no responisbility for any actions you take.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Ben_Rumson »

The Brits furnished front sight sets of different heights. Five to a set IIRC.. That might get your 150s on target to a point...I see them around..,ebay?
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

They do but I just like the 180's too much to change it. I have one of the ATI no gun smith scope mounts that I have been using with the 150's and it works well for load development. Actualy the 150's shot only an inch low at 100 with the iron sights.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Hobie »

A good topic to raise from the dead. The .303 Brit round is a great one. Anyone got one of the Ruger #1s?
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by model55 »

The 49th edition of the Lyman reloading handbook suggests IMR 3031 with 150 grain bullets starting at 37 grains and maximum being 41.5. Have never as far as I can remember used 3031 in the 303. I like the idea that you are allowed by your club to use mounts that do not alter the rifle.Good luck with your venture.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

Oh no not part of a club unless it's the I Like to Screw Around With Old Guns Club (I.L.S.A.W.O.G.C.) lol. I got the mount for deer season and range work. Tomorrow the old girl goes out with Irons to hopefull pop some song dogs.

Here is a short video of my oldest shooting it the other weekend.
https://youtu.be/i7B77vYwjEA
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by model55 »

Nice video and rifle! He will be a young man soon.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by AJMD429 »

That's cool......evidently nobody told you that an Enfield is an 'inherently inaccurate rifle', and the 303 British cartridge is 'obsolete'... :lol:
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by J Miller »

JReed wrote:Oh no not part of a club unless it's the I Like to Screw Around With Old Guns Club (I.L.S.A.W.O.G.C.) lol. I got the mount for deer season and range work. Tomorrow the old girl goes out with Irons to hopefull pop some song dogs.

Here is a short video of my oldest shooting it the other weekend.
https://youtu.be/i7B77vYwjEA
Goodness he's growd a bunch since we met him here in IN several years ago.

He's doing with that Enfield what I need to be doing with mine .... sigh.

Joe
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Stan in SC »

I hunted with several sporterized .303 rifles for several years with good success.
My favorite load was a Sierra 180 grain bullet over 40 grains of IMR4895.

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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Neat post JR 8) 8) ..

Edit: Forgot to ask need someone to furnish the sight radius on the NO.1 MK III
Thanks
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

Ben_Rumson wrote:Neat post JR 8) 8) ..

Edit: Forgot to ask need someone to furnish the sight radius on the NO.1 MK III
Thanks
The local GS has one I will try and take the tape measure this weekend and see.

Joe

Yeah they are both a bit bigger :lol: . Just loaded up anothe 80 rounds this evening now I need to order more boolits and pick up some more powder. Think SWMBO is getting a little anoyed at how much shooting the 3 of us have been doing this winter :shock: , but when you have 2 growing boys it takes alot to keep all the guns fed lol.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

Stan in SC wrote:I hunted with several sporterized .303 rifles for several years with good success.
My favorite load was a Sierra 180 grain bullet over 40 grains of IMR4895.

Stan in SC
I have used that combo also and it shoots well. The 4320 meters better for me with thrown charges and the accuracy was comprable. It is easier to find IMR4895 most of the time so when I see 4320 on the shelf I buy as much as I can sneak past the wife. I also use it in .223 with 55gr and 69gr bullets.
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by J Miller »

This is stretching my memory a lot because of the time that's passed but I was loading for my first No 4 Enfield back in the early 70s.
The load I used the most was the Hornady 174gr RN over a charge of surplus Dupont IMR 4831. I used the data from the then current Hornady manual.
In that British made Enfield that load would shoot under an 1" all day long at 100 yards. Back then the Black Canyon Shooting range only had a 100 yd range. It wasn't until many years later they added the 200 yd ranges.

Jeremy,
Feeding rifles has always been costly, but there are more things that cost more. I wonder what SWMBO would say if you decided to restore a WW II tank or maybe a Marine F4U Corsair while taking pilots lessons. :twisted: Now THAT would be expensive.
Especially when the boys decided they wanted one too. :D

Joe
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by trapper45 »

Hobie wrote:A good topic to raise from the dead. The .303 Brit round is a great one. Anyone got one of the Ruger #1s?

Picked one up about two years ago. Popped an old softball about 70 yards away from a standing position (me, not the softball) and using open sights. Yellow-box Rem-UMC ball ammo. Worked great. The fascination of having a new rifle from the 21st century with the .303 chamber markings was too strong to pass up . . . .
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JReed
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by JReed »

trapper45 wrote:
Hobie wrote:A good topic to raise from the dead. The .303 Brit round is a great one. Anyone got one of the Ruger #1s?

Picked one up about two years ago. Popped an old softball about 70 yards away from a standing position (me, not the softball) and using open sights. Yellow-box Rem-UMC ball ammo. Worked great. The fascination of having a new rifle from the 21st century with the .303 chamber markings was too strong to pass up . . . .
The old UMC stuff was very good. I use to shoot it regularly when you could still get it for $10 a box. Now if I shoot factory ammo I use the Privi Partisan. Very consistant and the brass is excellent for reloading. Their 174 FMJ shoots to the iron sights out to 500 which always amazes the AR crowd at the range lol. Something about old guns shooting well blows their minds.
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trapper45
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Re: 303 British Loads & Sierra ProHunters

Post by trapper45 »

Some 'modern' folks seem totally amazed that old guys with old guns and open sights can hit anything at all. What was it?-- breath control, trigger squeeze and sight alignment. Still works . . . .
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