Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment - Updated
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- Griff
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Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment - Updated
Seating/crimp adjustments aren't hard, tedius, yes, but simple, if you follow simple instructions. Taking one thing at a time, as trying to adjust both seating and crimp depths at the same time will make you pull your hair out. The following is a very short photo essay on my method. (May not be "proper", but I find it works very well for me).
I'm using this Lee Handloader I've had for about 15 or so years instead of one on my bench, as it was handy, and initially, this was done quickly; the die is from a new set of .45Colt I bought from a fellow Levergunner thru the forum and until this, unused.
The bullet is a Rucker 200gr RFN I load for my .45 Colt EMF/Rossi "Short Rifle". The case is once or twice or ?? fired Winchester I had sitting around. Before the photos began I sized and de-primed the case, then expanded & belled the case using this same RCBS carbide die set.
Install the seat/crimp die, but leave the body backed out a tad, at least to the point where your belled empty case won't begin to crimp. Keep the lock ring on the body and the seater stem loose at this point... makes for easier adjustments. Now, set a bullet in the case mouth, and run it up the seater die... until the bullet is seated to the depth where the bullet is seated to the crimp groove. This will take several adjustments, no need to try to do it all in one big move, as if you push the bullet in too far, you have to pull it back out... and start over. (As I did below)! You want the bullet seated to the point at which, had the die body been in the correct position, the case would be crimped into the crimp groove.
At this point, back out the seater stem several turns, and with the ram of the press up, screw down the seater/crimp die so that the body of the die contacts the case mouth. At this point you don't want the seater stem contacting the bullet, you just want the die body touching. By hand, turn the body of the die about a ¼ turn, this should just begin to push the ram down. Slowly, push the ram back up into the die, pushing the case into the crimping protusion inside the die. Lower the ram and inspect your seated, crimped bullet. If it crimped to the depth you want, tighten the lock ring on the die. If not, move the die in the direction you need for more (down), or less (up) crimp depth. When you get the crimp set correctly, and you'll want to verify that locking the lock ring in place doesn't change that crimp depth, THEN, and only then do you return to adjusting the seating depth. And it's easy, with the seated, crimped bullet in place on the ram, run the ram up into the seater/crimp die, and turn the seater stem down to where the seater meets the bullet. I'd tell you, "...and a tiny bit more..." but you might over do it. But, you'll need a further adjustment, as everything seems to move just the faintest of hairs as you turn the lock rings into place. One word, here about the lock rings... if you tighten them tight against the press, and tighten their set screw, you'll not get the die off the press until you loosen the lock ring. So, always just make the slightest of contact with the lock ring, thus you can remove your dies by hand alone... no need to get a pipe wrench and wreak havoc on the darned things. They ain't expensive, but, why?
Same, but different on the seating stem, there you want to have the lock ring pretty much require a wrench to loosen it. But, remember, as you tighten that lock ring, you'll be moving the stem UP away from the bullet the tiniest of amounts, due to the thread against thread... so you'll need to put another case and bullet thru the loading process (sans primer and powder) to ensure that everything's in adjustment and repeatable. Those two "dummy" rounds stay in the die set box for future reference. In my case, I load about 6 different .451 bullets in .45Colt, so I have "dummy" rounds in that .45Colt die box for each bullet type. This makes setting the seating depth easy for each bullet type.
After pulling the bullet I reset the seating plunger a little higher ran it back in the seater, and viola! A complete round, no problems.
I'm using this Lee Handloader I've had for about 15 or so years instead of one on my bench, as it was handy, and initially, this was done quickly; the die is from a new set of .45Colt I bought from a fellow Levergunner thru the forum and until this, unused.
The bullet is a Rucker 200gr RFN I load for my .45 Colt EMF/Rossi "Short Rifle". The case is once or twice or ?? fired Winchester I had sitting around. Before the photos began I sized and de-primed the case, then expanded & belled the case using this same RCBS carbide die set.
Install the seat/crimp die, but leave the body backed out a tad, at least to the point where your belled empty case won't begin to crimp. Keep the lock ring on the body and the seater stem loose at this point... makes for easier adjustments. Now, set a bullet in the case mouth, and run it up the seater die... until the bullet is seated to the depth where the bullet is seated to the crimp groove. This will take several adjustments, no need to try to do it all in one big move, as if you push the bullet in too far, you have to pull it back out... and start over. (As I did below)! You want the bullet seated to the point at which, had the die body been in the correct position, the case would be crimped into the crimp groove.
At this point, back out the seater stem several turns, and with the ram of the press up, screw down the seater/crimp die so that the body of the die contacts the case mouth. At this point you don't want the seater stem contacting the bullet, you just want the die body touching. By hand, turn the body of the die about a ¼ turn, this should just begin to push the ram down. Slowly, push the ram back up into the die, pushing the case into the crimping protusion inside the die. Lower the ram and inspect your seated, crimped bullet. If it crimped to the depth you want, tighten the lock ring on the die. If not, move the die in the direction you need for more (down), or less (up) crimp depth. When you get the crimp set correctly, and you'll want to verify that locking the lock ring in place doesn't change that crimp depth, THEN, and only then do you return to adjusting the seating depth. And it's easy, with the seated, crimped bullet in place on the ram, run the ram up into the seater/crimp die, and turn the seater stem down to where the seater meets the bullet. I'd tell you, "...and a tiny bit more..." but you might over do it. But, you'll need a further adjustment, as everything seems to move just the faintest of hairs as you turn the lock rings into place. One word, here about the lock rings... if you tighten them tight against the press, and tighten their set screw, you'll not get the die off the press until you loosen the lock ring. So, always just make the slightest of contact with the lock ring, thus you can remove your dies by hand alone... no need to get a pipe wrench and wreak havoc on the darned things. They ain't expensive, but, why?
Same, but different on the seating stem, there you want to have the lock ring pretty much require a wrench to loosen it. But, remember, as you tighten that lock ring, you'll be moving the stem UP away from the bullet the tiniest of amounts, due to the thread against thread... so you'll need to put another case and bullet thru the loading process (sans primer and powder) to ensure that everything's in adjustment and repeatable. Those two "dummy" rounds stay in the die set box for future reference. In my case, I load about 6 different .451 bullets in .45Colt, so I have "dummy" rounds in that .45Colt die box for each bullet type. This makes setting the seating depth easy for each bullet type.
After pulling the bullet I reset the seating plunger a little higher ran it back in the seater, and viola! A complete round, no problems.
Last edited by Griff on Tue May 28, 2013 3:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
You know, I'm not braggin or nuthin, but I got one of them purty Lee tools too. I keep it in a tool box with a Lee Deluxe 4 Die 45 Colt set, and a few other tools.
My thought was that if I ever got out to do any extended camping I'd take it and some components and just reload my cases.
All my tools and supplies, a pound of powder or two, bullets and primers will fit in the small tool box.
So far I haven't even got the dies adjusted in it.
Some day.
Joe
My thought was that if I ever got out to do any extended camping I'd take it and some components and just reload my cases.
All my tools and supplies, a pound of powder or two, bullets and primers will fit in the small tool box.
So far I haven't even got the dies adjusted in it.
Some day.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Thanks!
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Oh,,,, I don't have my 357 expander actually belling the case mouth!!
So should I???
Thanks.
N.
So should I???
Thanks.
N.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
- Griff
- Posting leader...
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
My answer is a definite, qualified, "maybe?" If you're using a bevel based bullet or a jacketed bullet, it may not be quite as necessary as I think it is with plain based lead projectiles. Also, if you're chamfering the inside of the case mouth, you're providing a bit of a 'ramp' for the bullet to become your expander without shaving either lead or copper from the bullet. If you're shaving lead or copper from the base of the bullet, yes, definitely let the expander do a little belling. It makes getting the bullet started into the case SO much easier.Nath wrote:Oh,,,, I don't have my 357 expander actually belling the case mouth!!
So should I???
Thanks.
N.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Cheers Griff, I just adjusted the expander to give a little belling so if that tight grouping load I tested the other day goes to poop and I can afford the gas I'll be coming for you
N
N
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20859
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Ought not change anything... except for the better if you'd had any issues by buggerin' up the bases by not belling! I might move around a lot, but I'm not hard to find... Waft a cas of BP around, I'll come runnin'!Nath wrote:Cheers Griff, I just adjusted the expander to give a little belling so if that tight grouping load I tested the other day goes to poop and I can afford the gas I'll be coming for you
N
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 18703
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
This post has got to set some kind of a record for "oldest post resurrected".
But............good information is good forever, or at least as long as its legal to reload.-----------6
But............good information is good forever, or at least as long as its legal to reload.-----------6
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Lol. You know I respect you reallyGriff wrote:Ought not change anything... except for the better if you'd had any issues by buggerin' up the bases by not belling! I might move around a lot, but I'm not hard to find... Waft a cas of BP around, I'll come runnin'!Nath wrote:Cheers Griff, I just adjusted the expander to give a little belling so if that tight grouping load I tested the other day goes to poop and I can afford the gas I'll be coming for you
N
N.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Hello, I don't want to hijack this thread but along these lines of crimp adjustment I am having an issue.
I have an Uberti 73 carbine that i am reloading for and about 1/3 of my loaded rounds are telescoping into the case. I am using 0.429 200 gr Nosler Jacketed HP. I know that the manuals say 0.427 but the barrel slugged to 0.429. Cases are uniformed. And I am using the RCBS seater die THEN a Redding Taper crimp die separately.
I can feel the crimp die working and the rounds look good but obviously are not passing muster after a few weeks of being in the rifle. Maybe this is an issue. I am a rancher and the rifle is always loaded, with 6 or 7 of the 9 capacity, behind the seat of my truck. This is the first time I am using JHP instead of Lead FP. Any thoughts or ideas would be great.
I have an Uberti 73 carbine that i am reloading for and about 1/3 of my loaded rounds are telescoping into the case. I am using 0.429 200 gr Nosler Jacketed HP. I know that the manuals say 0.427 but the barrel slugged to 0.429. Cases are uniformed. And I am using the RCBS seater die THEN a Redding Taper crimp die separately.
I can feel the crimp die working and the rounds look good but obviously are not passing muster after a few weeks of being in the rifle. Maybe this is an issue. I am a rancher and the rifle is always loaded, with 6 or 7 of the 9 capacity, behind the seat of my truck. This is the first time I am using JHP instead of Lead FP. Any thoughts or ideas would be great.
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20859
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Oh sure... I could feel the respect right over the 'net! Since my GGGrandpa is from Putney, I'll refrain from any snide remarks about bloody...Nath wrote:Lol. You know I respect you reallyGriff wrote:Ought not change anything... except for the better if you'd had any issues by buggerin' up the bases by not belling! I might move around a lot, but I'm not hard to find... Waft a cas of BP around, I'll come runnin'!Nath wrote:Cheers Griff, I just adjusted the expander to give a little belling so if that tight grouping load I tested the other day goes to poop and I can afford the gas I'll be coming for you
N
N.
I've got a few questions:Milano wrote:Hello, I don't want to hijack this thread but along these lines of crimp adjustment I am having an issue.
I have an Uberti 73 carbine that i am reloading for and about 1/3 of my loaded rounds are telescoping into the case. I am using 0.429 200 gr Nosler Jacketed HP. I know that the manuals say 0.427 but the barrel slugged to 0.429. Cases are uniformed. And I am using the RCBS seater die THEN a Redding Taper crimp die separately.
I can feel the crimp die working and the rounds look good but obviously are not passing muster after a few weeks of being in the rifle. Maybe this is an issue. I am a rancher and the rifle is always loaded, with 6 or 7 of the 9 capacity, behind the seat of my truck. This is the first time I am using JHP instead of Lead FP. Any thoughts or ideas would be great.
Is the rifle sitting upright? And how rough are the roads... a lot of jumpin' up and down could be the cause your bullets are jumpin' the crimp.
Are you using a bullet with a crimp groove? The taper crimp die alone might not be giving you a deep enough crimp. Does your seater die a combo seater/crimper die? If so, you might just want to try adjusting that seater body down a tad to get a roll, and raise the seater plug to adjust for that extra depth of the body.
Your expander plug might be a bit oversize, even for a .429 bullet. On my .45Colts, even without any crimp, it takes 2 solid whacks on a kinetic bullet puller to get a bullet to come out of a case, just from neck tension alone.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Thank you Griff for the reply. The roads are rough dirt roads. Some water bars, bumps, rocks, etc. The rifle lays in a scabbard, sights down. And with the traditional Lead RNFP the rounds have never telescoped. The only difference is that lead round have the "Grease Goove" Crimp Groove while the JHP have the "Serrated" Crimp Groove.
The seater die I have does have the Crimp in it however I was told that a separate crimp is usually more consistant for COAL. I don't know. I am used to non crimp rounds like 308, 7 Mag, etc.
What should my expander plug measure?
Any other suggestions and help are greatly appreciated.
The seater die I have does have the Crimp in it however I was told that a separate crimp is usually more consistant for COAL. I don't know. I am used to non crimp rounds like 308, 7 Mag, etc.
What should my expander plug measure?
Any other suggestions and help are greatly appreciated.
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20859
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment
Pictures are worth a thousand words... A picture of the bullet you're having trouble with would be a help. As for consistency... I don't have a problem using a combination die... however, your case length needs to be consistent also! A Lee FCD kinda allows for us to be lazy in that regard.Milano wrote:Thank you Griff for the reply. The roads are rough dirt roads. Some water bars, bumps, rocks, etc. The rifle lays in a scabbard, sights down. And with the traditional Lead RNFP the rounds have never telescoped. The only difference is that lead round have the "Grease Goove" Crimp Groove while the JHP have the "Serrated" Crimp Groove.
The seater die I have does have the Crimp in it however I was told that a separate crimp is usually more consistant for COAL. I don't know. I am used to non crimp rounds like 308, 7 Mag, etc.
What should my expander plug measure?
Any other suggestions and help are greatly appreciated.
I don't know what a .44 Mag expander plug should measure... but I'd figure somewhere in the .425 range, as it should still give plenty of neck tension, with the bell going out to over .433 to allow even .431 bullets to seat without shaving lead... but... I'm just guessing... maybe someone that loads for the .44 can chime in.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!